Talk:Gil Guide by InfamousDS
My Goal It is my goal that this guide will have the most complete list of zone-by-zone Gil Drops available, but there is only so much a 54DNC can do alone. I'm begging ya, get out there and hunt those beastmen! You don't have to do a list which states the exact beastman you killed, as long as you say what type (not job) it was. NMs have Gil drops on their page, why don't we have a list all our own for those not-so well known ones, like the lowly Yagudo Piper? InfamousDS 01:45, 28 March 2009 (UTC) What I've seen These are some things I didn't include in the actual guide, just observations really. Nothing that's legit enough for the actual guide. The first thing is that regardless of level (except my second point), all beastmen in a single zone drop the same amount of Gil. The only deciding factor is what type of beastman it is. Secondly, Gil drops are divided into 10 level increments. The increase seems to be around 10 Gil, so it is increasingly smaller percentages. It does not seem to be equal to level, however. This is just conjecture though, I'll need to have completed my research before I can decide anything conclusive or write legitimate increases. Lastly on my mind at this time, Beastman Strongholds will be very hard to test alone. I'm not talking about the ones near the major cities, but the ones near Jeuno have mobs that are EM-T at 75, if not higher. I'll need to know the exact split in Gil between parties before I can duo or trio in these areas. I've always assumed even splits, but I don't know for sure. It seems impossible to test because of the great amount of variance in drops. Whats listed in the guide is actually a step function in terms of 5. Minimum was rounded down to the closest five, maximum was rounded up to the nearest 5. For example, My Qufim Island actual Gigas lowest was 44, which only happened once in 30 kills. However it was still possible to happen, and it may not be the lowest, so I rounded down to 40. My highest was 113, and it hovered around there once or twice with a 110 and 111, but was never higher than 113. However, it could be, so I rounded up to 115. This is the format I would like used for all future submissions, please, so that it is consistent. InfamousDS 03:56, 23 March 2009 (UTC) The Truth of Mining DISCLAIMER This is entirely hypothetical, using percentages and costs as available to me. Nobody really asked for it yet, but here is a proof that the myth of mining is false. Lets start with the favored side, buying the materials. I decided to use iron ore/ingots in my example. Ore cost 675 each at the guild, Ingots cost 2700 each. 48 ore costs the same as 12 ingots. Generally, the market value is 35000G, and someone recently bought out all the ingots. You decide to make a 2 stacks to sell in case that person is still looking to buy them. You spend 1500 on fire crystals, in case of breaks. So: P = 70000 - (66300 + 0), where 70000 is the market value, 66300 is the combined value of ore and crystals (materials), and 0 is the cost of labor. As a result, P = 3700. Not great, but reasonable. Now for the mining example. Mining is not for people who don't have a ton of time, especially in this example. You start by buying 10 stacks of pickaxes, because you take this mining session seriously. They cost 188 each for you, so you spend 22560. You also buy 8 stacks of fire crystals, which cost 500 per stack, meaning you spent 4000. You also decide to kill tunnel worms for zinc, and have skill in alchemy(60), smithing(55), and goldsmithing(40) crafts. 4-9 hours later (depending on how fast you work) you find that you found 33 zinc ore, 3 darksteel ore, 65 iron ore, 46 copper ore, 6 silver ore, 16 flint stones, 22 tin ore, and 20 zeruhn soot. To make space, you craft the items as you find them, giving you 3 darksteel ingots, 2 steel ingots (from HQ), 12 iron ingots, 15 brass ingots, 5 tin ingots, 2 glass fiber, and 1 silver ingot. That leaves 18 zinc, 1 copper, 2 tin, 2 silver, and 20 soot. You decide to sell the extra tin and silver, which is 148. You also decide to craft the remaining zinc into brass, so you buy 53 copper ore at 10 each, or 530. A stack of iron is still worth 35000, darksteel is worth 10000 per ingot, silver is worth 1000 per ingot, brass is worth 15000 per stack and 1000 each, tin ingots can be sold for 44 each to a store, the soot is worth 150 per 3 (you toss the extra 2), and steel is worth 3000 each. You keep the glass fiber, because a friend needs it. That brings us to: P = (148 + 30000 + 35000 + 30000 + 9000 + 6000 + 220 + 900 + 1000) - (22560 + 4530) OR P = 112268 - 27090 SO P = 85178 Well, would you look at that! 3700 buying the materials, but only takes roughly 30 minutes to craft. Or 85178, can take as much as 9 hours to get, an extra hour to clean up the extra materials, and as long as a week to sell it all. Pick your poison. InfamousDS 18:33, June 2, 2010 (UTC) Reasons for Undoing the Revision 1.) See Above. 2.) Materials are accounted for. They are: With Mining (in the myth): Cost 0, Sell Price 6000. Profit = Sell Price - Total Cost 6000 = 6000 - 0 Without Mining: Cost 10000, Sell Price 6000 -4000 = 6000 - 10000 In short, you lose a hypothetical 4000 in the first instance, and you lose a real 4000 in the second. And last I checked, hypothetical money was worth less. 3.)If you're in it for profit, there are better ways. The Myth specifically refers to crafting, and all of its aspects are crafting related. As a crafter, Free becoming money is good. As a profit-seeker, Free becoming money is also good. The difference is that the profit-seek has better options, as their focus is just money, not a specific item. 4.)It says right at the top of the page it's a guide, which means my (and many others in some instances not related to this page) opinion. I feel that mining is worthwhile, others don't. 5.) You didn't ask to change my work. On another page, I could see the revision because this is a knowledge base. But the guide pages are player experiences, and you don't have my experiences. You probably know ways that are way better then what I've posted, but I tried to keep the AH out of the guide because everyone knows how to use it. This is for newer players mostly, and for a new player mining is a viable income source AND a means to decrease the overall cost of crafting. I made 300k in 2 days mining brass ingots to skill up Gold, which includes everything else I sold other than them. Mining is great way to make money for skill-ups, but it isn't efficient by any means. And yes, I did sell them on the AH (which I say in my example). Free + Money = Money. High Cost - Higher Cost = Loss. These are facts of life. And if you are trying for a rare ore, the sheer space that unused ores take up should be reason alone to craft while mining. InfamousDS 11:59, April 7, 2011 (UTC) Seeing Spots Reward is 3k, not 9k. Didn't want to change the main page w/o permission. --Gestahl 00:26, June 10, 2010 (UTC) What I wrote is right, just not without a little math. 4x Wings = 3k, 3x trades = 12 wings, 12 wings = 9k. Its one of the notes at the top (underneath the tips), that I would write per stack, cause I only personally know a few people who don't farm in terms of stacks on common/semi-common items. I had to change it once already because of a random "edit", I may go through sometime after summer semester and just circumvent random editors. Thanks for asking though, but I'll fix it some time. InfamousDS 21:27, June 17, 2010 (UTC) Here's the problem Your "Myth of Mining" argument is illogical because you count the cost of materials gathered by oneself as zero. This is not accurate. It takes time to gather materials, and this time can be used to do other things. In order to accurately and efficiently calculate costs (I am an economics major), you must take your most effective means of farming gil, determine your gil/hour using THAT method, then apply it to the time required to mine your own crafting materials. This puts a cost on whatever you are mining. For example, say you are able to farm 20k gil/hour doing "task X", but it takes you a full hour to get your 10k worth of mining materials. Choosing the materials over farming your own gil and buying them is costing you 10k. This is called opportunity cost. You are forfeiting the ability to farm your 20k in that hour by mining up 10k worth of materials. Had you farmed 20k gil, you could have purchased the 10k materials and crafted your item while retaining a surplus of 10k. Materials, regardless of whom obtained them, always have a cost. If you mine 10k worth of materials yourself, you now have 10k. If you craft them into an item worth 6k, you now have 6k. It IS a 4k loss to do this. Many people fall into the trap of thinking self farming saves money. In reality, it does not. It wastes time and money you could have obtained elsewhere. Once again we encounter the idea of opportunity cost. Your 10k worth of materials can be sold (for 10k) or crafted into an item (presumably to sell for 6k). Thus, you can choose between 10k and 6k with your materials, given no other factors. Please do consider at least editing your "Myth of Mining" section to reflect the opportunity cost issue. It is extremely misleading to players and WILL cause gil loss if left as it is now. This DOES NOT, however, take into account shortages in supply, where you may be forced to farm your own materials. Abysia 19:02, April 7, 2011 (UTC)Abysia